Sunday, March 8

Free or not

Marx held people were enslaved by societal conditions whereas Kant thought individuals were inherently free and the fault lay with individuals failing to exhibit courage. 
Which is correct?
Can we have a mixture of both?
Kant.  
Kant asserted that the moral law is one that we can self impose upon ourselves, made possible by our autonomy under his transcendent philosophical construct, consistent with the idea of free will. Hence it is that freedom we are free to exercise, notwithstanding for nature he posits a causal form of determinism. That is the idea that antecedent events determine outcomes. This casual form of determinism would also apply to humanity, except for the fact he introduces his transcendental construct. This is all tied up with the structure of Kant’s moral theory and belief in freedom, GOD, plus the immortality of the soul, which become the “postulates” of his ideas on practical reasoning.
His overarching view is that what is morally right or wrong can mostly only be assessed against those who are free agents. But this freedom can only apply if the cause for that action lies within that person, when they are free agents,      
But Kant’s view is where our actions arise as a naturally occurring phenomenon, in time, than it would be the result of some other cause occurring in a previous time, consistent with the idea of casual determinism.  
His idea in this matter arises from his attempt to link the Newtonian worldview expressed in his so called priori laws. That is his philosophical construct that every event relates to a cause which has begun in an earlier time. Hence, if that cause was an event occurring in time, then it must also have a cause beginning in a still earlier time and so on. He held that view applied to nature in the form of a deterministic causal chain that stretches backwards into the dim past to determine existential outcomes. He gets around this problem for humanity, by invoking the transcendental argument. Thus he introduces the idea of a kind of transcendental idealism which ensures one has the kind of freedom that ethically based existence demands. His system of reasoning and his categorical imperatives assume universality, which is not the case in term of human existence according to Nietzsche, who was highly critical of it.     
Marx.
Marx held that in order to achieve both a good and a just society, it is incumbent for a system to offer free development for each based on the reciprocal obligation that equally applies for all, as was incorporated into the Communist Manifesto.
This freedom could not be achieved under a capitalist system that would enslave those less influential and the poor to deprive them of a fair share of the wealth of production. He thought that capitalism results in poverty, via frequent crashes, structural unemployment, downward pressure on wages, etc. etc. so that an individual’s freedom to achieve self-realization for a large portion of the population was unattainable.

5 comments:

Deanna said...

Hello Lindsay,

As always, your post has stirred up some reaction. While it might not be what you were hoping for, it is, after all, my job to bring the unexpected to the party, so here it is:

I will suggest that Marx had it right, not only because the mechanisms of society are so designed to give anyone who wishes to exercise their free will the feeling that they truly are doing so, even when their range of choice has been so limited, and their desire for change so directed, that courage hardly comes into the discussion. Those who are at the helm, manipulating the conditions in society and the information available, do so in such a way that they can then anticipate all possible outcomes, and make it very likely that whatever choice is made by the individual, it will fall within ‘acceptable’ outcomes. The result of all of this mind control (for that is what it amounts to, and Marx could never have imagined its extent now) is that while capitalism has resulted in poverty for so many, those same poor would argue that socialism would take away ‘their freedom’. I’m unsure what these people think they would lose if their health and dental was paid for by insurance managed by the government. Such is the extent of the mind-control.

Under these conditions, it is hard to imagine what Kant’s courageous person would do.

All the Best,
Deanna

Sean Jeating said...

Sometimes, for example when reading comments like Deanna's above, I wish my English were a tiny bit more than rudimental, so that I could answer more eloquent.
To cut it short, I tend to agree with he thoughts, with one exception: I am sure, once they do overcome their intellectual laziness, individuals are immune against "mind control" ... which does, of course, not solve the problem. Too many individuals.
The wonderful Schiller put it in "Don Carlos" this way: Geben Sie Gedankenfreiheit! / Give freedom of thought!
With hindsight I do say: No individual should ask for freedom of thought. Each individual should take this freedom!
Uff! Complex a topic.
Hope I could make my point.
If not, let me know, and I shall try with other words.
The peace of the night.

Deanna said...

Sean, you have certainly made your point. And yes, a complex topic indeed!

Sean Jeating said...

Ah, Deanna, thank you.
Lazy blogger that I am, I clicked on your name, read a few lines, decided to come back and bookmarked your blog. All I have to do now is to let my follow action to my intention.
Thank you, again.

Lindsay Byrnes said...

Hi Deanna and Sean.
Welcome to the discussion.
What a pity you can’t both join my philosophical discussion group at U3A this week as I am sure everyone would be delighted to hear your thoughtful views.
They are such a great group, open to different ideas and discussions in a warm and friendly manner.
In fact Max’s big ideas, in my view, warrant serious consideration as they have been obfuscated by those who have distorted his philosophy and further soured any serious philosophical enquiry by those who have committed heinous crimes against humanity, claiming erroneously to be Marxists.
Deanna
I am in broad agreement with just about everything you say except for the resilience in the idealism inherent in the youth, which you will recall I commented upon recently on your BLOG. To reiterate, as Sean may agree, they are not to be swayed so easily. I do think what Trump has to fear the most from Bernie Sanders, and not the more moderate Joe Biden. Sanders in my view, is the much clearer thinker, who envisages a much more socialistic America, but is also more pragmatic on such things as war, immigration and who unequivocally critiques past mindless past involvements which will sway an increasingly weary populace.

Sean,
Likewise your rudimentary grasp of English as you put it would not present any barrier in presenting your thoughtful ideas. Indeed Schiller’s Don Carlos has left behind an enduring legacy of the ‘enlightenment’ in the continued existential struggle of humanity against superstition and to pit freedom in lieu of tyranny. His idea to introduce these virtues into the arts in the manner of a truth seeker remains an antidote to mass media manipulation as in mind control, to the extent it can be freely absorbed into society.
Best wishes