tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9716997.post8190790366014297759..comments2024-03-15T23:30:38.471+11:00Comments on Lindsay's Lobes: Death where is its stingLindsay Byrneshttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11030132436987752741noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9716997.post-50473362226473252132019-12-03T15:10:08.209+11:002019-12-03T15:10:08.209+11:00Wonderful to read that excerpt from Charles' l...Wonderful to read that excerpt from Charles' letter. Sad he couldn't make liars out of the doctors but sounded like he gave it it best shot. Good post and topic <br />Rachael Byrneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06792404154723243557noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9716997.post-41662735961656440202019-12-03T15:02:35.497+11:002019-12-03T15:02:35.497+11:00Hi Deanna,
Pleased to hear the post provided foo...Hi Deanna, <br />Pleased to hear the post provided food for thought. <br />Your comments of course are always most welcome, regardless of whether or not they provide an alternative perspective or however long. <br />Hence I would be grateful if you elect to share some of those seeds of thought later on here as a comment. <br />Best wishes <br />Lindsay Byrneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11030132436987752741noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9716997.post-61431638334596576172019-12-03T14:34:42.158+11:002019-12-03T14:34:42.158+11:00Hi Tom,
Thanks for your clarifications. I would ag...Hi Tom,<br />Thanks for your clarifications. I would agree with the idea of becoming accustomed to death, particularly in relation to intensive farming and continual reporting of loss of life, risks one becoming inured to its tragic consequences. My exposure was in an environment of care and concern for animals that were individually known. That was at a young age where the very idea of death was not fully grasped. But where it’s consequences did manifest itself was much later on when I inadvertently left the door open to the hen house. A dog had wandered in and several of the hens were killed. I felt personally responsible for their death and was so devastated that initially no amount of consoling by my parents could calm me down. <br />What I think is that an early exposure to life and death does help prepare one to plan around it's inevitability when one is consumed with the its imminent likelihood, to lessen the burden. That is to experience the sacred nature of life and see it seemingly being passed on in death, that may be helpful in later life. <br />The conversations that make facing one’s death easier, I envisaged as principally covering such matters as support systems, donations of organs,provisions regarding estate matters of both intellectual and of real value whose prior consideration may make the process of dying less burdensome at that time. Finally, I am grateful for your input, which enhances my understanding of how another thinks about this challenging topic. Lindsay Byrneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11030132436987752741noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9716997.post-30296330177081977502019-12-02T23:20:04.770+11:002019-12-02T23:20:04.770+11:00I tried to frame a comment, but after several atte...I tried to frame a comment, but after several attempts (some of them rather long), all I will add here is thank you ( I think). Your thoughts have acted as seeds, being fruitful and multiplying.Deannahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08887649330596022559noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9716997.post-20038715356182893952019-12-02T19:15:47.494+11:002019-12-02T19:15:47.494+11:00Hi Lindsay,
On your first point, being lulled into...Hi Lindsay,<br />On your first point, being lulled into a numbed sense of security is, of course, an ego problem. I do not believe that judgement can be made concerning the problems faced by those 'left behind', only my worries about them. But then those worries would disappear (presumably) when one passes through the Gate of Death. <br /><br />Although I do not instinctively trust the universe around me (why should I?), I do not wish to 'manage' or control the process of death. I do seek to be aware of it, however. Palliative care need not dull that awareness, only help one to cope with the possible physical pain or other discomfort. That in turn may help one to experience the passage in full. No, I am not against the alleviation of suffering.<br /><br />I find the loss of ego-attachments an interesting phenomenon which can be experienced at other times, during surgery for example. I would not wish to avoid that.<br /><br />Finally, you make the point of growing up on a farm where you became accustomed(?) to death. The problem there is the risk that one can become inured to death and the brutality that often surrounds it. The same phenomenon occurs when repetitive reporting of death is thrown at us through the media. I'm not sure that any talk about death enables one to face squarely when it comes. :)Tomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09028121782477111901noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9716997.post-32574713777983072922019-12-02T10:13:16.787+11:002019-12-02T10:13:16.787+11:00Hi Tom,
Thanks for your frank response as it’s al...Hi Tom, <br />Thanks for your frank response as it’s always great to get your well considered views, <br />However I was also a tad surprised by your comment though, so I will attempt to make a few relevant points in case you would like to entertain further discussions or clarify what you mean. At the outset I agree one will worry about people being left behind battling to cope and your more strident concern about being lulled into a numbed sense of security. But aren’t both also a natural product of our attachment to the material world from which we must all at some stage depart in death to enter the spiritual realm ? You give me the impression ( correct me if I am wrong) you want to maintain control and avoid at all costs being lulled into any numbed sense of security. But isn’t that the very essence of any final dying process - a loss of those attachments that sustain us in life. The more difficult it is to entertain that loss of control so it may be to quell fears of passing unto death. So that one has the gradual release from the burden of an ego and it’s worldly attachments? Also, if receiving the best forms of palliative care alleviates suffering and likewise to those loved ones at the time not to see one suffer, surely you would approve! What I think this illustrates is the need to talk freely about death so that our views are in fact clarified in life to enable one to face death squarely when it comes. Best wishes Lindsay Byrneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11030132436987752741noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9716997.post-20693900987719808302019-12-01T20:15:59.886+11:002019-12-01T20:15:59.886+11:00I do not feel that I am in tune with your sentimen...I do not feel that I am in tune with your sentiments. The older I become, the more I find the idea of death loathesome. Of course, that may simply be a way of my inner self telling me that death isn't real. Fine! But that doesn't get round the worry of how people who are left behind will manage, perhaps in their loneliness.<br /><br />Even worse than death and its leaving others behind, which for me is one of the paramount considerations, is the idea of being lulled [by any means] into a numbed sense of security. Death is an event which must be encountered; I prefer to face it eye-to-eye.<br /><br />As a footnote, there may be another reason why death is feared. Every life form lives off others, to be itself consumed by others. Maybe this doesn't apply only to the material world......! Tomhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09028121782477111901noreply@blogger.com